Andor Denise Gough on Dedra Meero’s Worst Nightmare in Episode 208

[This story contains spoilers through Andor season two’s eighth episode.]

In Andor’s season two premiere, Denise Gough’s Dedra Meero is paid a very specific compliment by Orson Krennic. Ben Mendelsohn’s Imperial Director recognized that the highly determined ISB Supervisor could foresee the future, particularly the pitfalls of his plan to seize the planet Ghorman through a propaganda campaign. Dedra then raised the added idea of cultivating a local radical insurgency, so that the Empire could ultimately use brute force to eliminate their manufactured “terrorist” threat and strip-mine the planet of its kalkite mineral to help fuel their forthcoming Death Star.

In the second chapter of creator Tony Gilroy’s first three-episode block, Dedra issues a plea to her superior, Major Partagaz (Anton Lesser), to keep her on the trail of Axis (Stellan Skarsgård’s Luthen Rael) instead of the secretive Ghorman assignment. But Partagaz quickly shuts her down out of respect for Krennic and the Imperial chain of command. Well, following episode eight’s Ghorman massacre and the death of Dedra’s beloved Syril Karn (Kyle Soller), the question now becomes whether Dedra anticipated the possibility of such a disastrous outcome when she first implored Partagaz to remove her from the Ghorman project.

According to Gough, Dedra didn’t predict this specific turn of events, and she genuinely just wanted to finish what she started in regard to the Axis network. If anything, she thought she could control the Ghorman scheme so tightly that she could have her cake and eat it too. She knew Syril would be the perfect patsy to embolden the Ghorman Front and unknowingly lead the Ghor to slaughter. But she mistakenly thought she could minimize the consequences of her law-abiding partner’s discovery that he’s been aiding large-scale grand theft and a planned genocide involving thousands of innocent lives. 

“Her biggest fear is to lose control. So when Syril finds out what she’s done and you see her desperately say, ‘No, we’re going to go back [to Coruscant] …’ she’s losing control of this situation,” Gough tells The Hollywood Reporter. “That is what makes her feel bad about that whole Ghorman situation. It’s not really the massacre, unfortunately. It’s not that she sees that she’s wiped out all these people; it’s that she’s lost Syril.”

Below, during a spoiler conversation with THR, Gough also looks back on Dedra’s earlier showdown with Syril’s mother, Eedy (Kathryn Hunter).

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As of the first block of episodes, Dedra and Syril are playing house together, and they’re finding unique ways to save money on their electric bill. 

(Laughs.)

Did she quickly talk herself into the idea of him after he saved her life on Ferrix a year earlier? 

It’s really interesting because I was thinking about that today: “How long have they lived together?” She strikes me as being very clinical about it all, and it makes sense that he would now be in her house. So I don’t know how long it’s been going on, but it’s definitely been going on for a while. It’s still interesting to wonder, “What was their first date? Where did they go? Did they date? What [else] happened in that [season one finale] cupboard?” Yeah, there’s a lot of “what happened?” in that [unseen] year, but when we meet them again, they’re established.

The thing about Dedra that I’ve really learned now is that she needs to feel safe all the time, and the way that she feels safe is by being in control of everything. So Syril comes under that umbrella, and the closer he is, the more she has to control the outcomes. He’s the only person who’s ever seen her vulnerable, so she needs to keep that close. 

There have been many epic showdowns in the Star Wars galaxy: Luke Skywalker/Darth Vader, Obi-Wan Kenobi/Anakin Skywalker and Rey/Kylo Ren. And now they have company in the form of Dedra Meero versus Eedy Karn. How excited were you to lay down the law with Kathryn Hunter’s Eedy?

(Laughs.) As a theater actress, Kathryn Hunter is one of our legends. I’ve known about her and her work forever, for as long as I’ve been acting. And so the thought that I was going to get to work with her was such a gift, first of all. But what’s so fantastic about that scene is, on paper, it can look like an intimidation. Dedra does her Dedra-ing and intimidates Eedy, and then Eedy does what she’s told. But when you work with a legend like Kathryn, they make much more complex choices within the scene. So, instead of being intimidated, she was impressed, and as soon as I saw that, I thought, “Oh my God, this isn’t as simple as Dedra laying down the law.” Dedra does her Dedra thing, but she’s matched with Eedy who finds it quite tasty. So, at the end, there’s a respect there. 

Kyle [Soller] said that he thinks it’s like a bully being called out. If you stand up to a bully, the bully suddenly goes, “Oh, I like you, actually.” So I felt that from Eedy during what I called “the negotiation.” And Kyle’s choice to lie on the bed like a broken bird was so inspired while these two women got to it. So that scene is one of the highlights of my career in all seriousness. Working with her was really something else.

It’s truly one of the best scenes in the entire series.

God, that means a lot. Thank you.

In 201, Krennic (Ben Mendelsohn) compliments Dedra for being able to see many moves ahead, and then there’s a key scene in 202 where she asks Anton Lesser’s character, Partagaz, to let her out of Krennic’s secret Ghorman assignment. Did she foresee who and what she’d have to risk by staying on the project? 

That’s a really good question. I think it’s more because she’s still obsessed with Axis [Stellan Skarsgård]. She knows that the chain of command means she has to do as she’s told, and she knows that it will be all-consuming. I don’t think she knows necessarily that she would use Syril the way that she does, but she’s quite calculated about it. I don’t think she would be fearful of taking on the [Ghorman] assignment because she’s indoctrinated into the Empire. She’ll go to any lengths for the Empire, but it’s the fact that [Ghorman] gets in the way of Axis, and that’s her downfall. She can’t let go of Axis. If there was no Axis. I think she’d be thrilled to take Ghorman on and make it her mission. 

Dedra grew up in an Imperial kinder-block, which means she had no example of love, of affection, of joy, of affirmation, of boundaries or of any parenting. So when Syril comes into her life and she has all these feelings that a normal person would be able to put in a place of safety within them, Dedra is undone by it. If she didn’t have these weird things with Syril, she’d have sacrificed him. If she had assigned somebody else to the Ghorman project, she’d be like, “Okay, I need this person to go in there and do this, this, and this. It’ll be all very calculated.” The problem is that she is undone by her feelings for Syril, but she doesn’t know what those feelings are. 

If you look at Cassian and Maarva [Fiona Shaw] in the first season, she teaches Cassian about love. When he says, “I’ll be worried about you all the time,” she says, “That’s just love.” But nobody has ever told Dedra what love is, or what it means when you look at a person and you’re happy for them. In 205, when she says, “It’s good to see you happy,” she doesn’t say it in a way that’s like, “Oh, it’s so good to see you happy!” She [coolly] says, “It’s good to see you happy,” and she doesn’t know what that is doing. So Syril being the person that she sends into Ghorman and uses like that is what makes her feel bad about that whole Ghorman situation. It’s not really the massacre, unfortunately. It’s not that she sees that she’s wiped out all these people; it’s that she’s lost Syril.

To me, Axis just felt like a convenient excuse because she couldn’t tell Partagaz that she knew she’d have to use her boyfriend as the perfect patsy and, in turn, risk her relationship to fulfill this Ghorman objective.

That’s fantastic. I love that you got that reading from it. I always just felt it was, “Oh God, now I have to go and work under [Krennic]. Partagaz lets me be in control of everything, and I won’t have control if I’m working under Krennic. I don’t like Krennic. I don’t know how to work Krennic in the same way.” So it’s maybe both of those things. She knows that if she works for Krennic, she’s not in control. She’s safe if she works with Partagaz and is chasing Axis, because she knows that she’s in control of that. 

Her biggest fear is to lose control. So when Syril finds out what she’s done and you see her desperately say, “No, we’re going to go back [to Coruscant] and we’re going to be this … ” she’s losing control of this situation. But if Syril wasn’t involved, I don’t know if she’d feel so out of control. I think she’d be quite mechanical about it. He’s the thorn; he’s the thing that undoes it.

So I think that’s brilliant, and I wish I had thought that. I wish I had thought that Dedra is seeing all of this ahead of her, but I don’t think she is. She’s genuinely obsessed with Axis and obsessed with being in control of Axis, and if she catches him, she redeems herself for Ferrix and everything. If she goes to Ghorman, then this Krennic guy gets all the glory of all her work.

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Andor season two is currently streaming on Disney+.